“I can’t think of two countries that have needed to work together more than Australia and India,” Julian Leeser, MP

Chair of Parliamentary Friends of India; Chair of Joint Standing Committee on Migration and Indigenous Affairs, NSW, for Liberal Party; Member for Berowra, Julian Leeser talks to Rajesh Sharma, Indus Age.

In response to an earlier column on India, do you think the columnist has a poor knowledge of India in their independence and struggle and Kashmir issue?

Thank you for the question Rajesh. I was very disturbed by the article because I think it indicates a position on the extreme political left in our country that questions the relationship with India and seeks to put India and china on the same page. I think that that’s just completely wrong. India shares so many of Australia’s values and it’s the reason why Australia and India are working more closely together in broader strategic forum. I just felt that the article couldn’t go unanswered and I particularly wanted to focus on the fact the things that we have in common. I think the things that we have most in common are those institutional things, the fact that we are both robust democracies. Australia is the sixth oldest continuous democracy in the world in the same period of time that India has been independent. I think India has had 14 prime ministers; we’ve had, a few more in recent years.

India has those 14 prime ministers come from seven different political parties. Our prime ministers come from three different political parties. We both have an independent judiciary. We both have a vibrant press.

If you read any of the Indian newspapers you’ll see very vociferous criticism of the government as you will see criticism of our government here. In some respect you know compare Australia and India to China where you’ve had one party running the show, where there’s so-called elections, where there’s no freedom of speech, where there’s no freedom of the press and where as you’re seeing in Hong Kong at the moment, dissent is being cracked down on an unprecedented level. I thought was just wrong and that’s why I responded to Brian Toohey in the strong fashion.

You have mentioned a strong relationship between Australia and India will be a major foreign policy legacy for ScoMo. Can you please elaborate?

I think one of the things that Australia and India are doing at the moment is that we’re both on a similar trajectory internationally. We are both as nations playing a greater and more robust role in international affairs and that’s because of the state of the world at the moment.

You’re having an America that is not quite as engaged as it’s been in the past and you’re having a much more aggressive China seeking to assert its influence in the Indo-Pacific region, in that context in particular Australia has to look to countries that share our values. There’s been a lot of talk over many years that Australia and India should come together that we should work more closely together. That we should have greater trade, that we should work more closely in defence and security matters. I think Scott Morrison has well and truly realized that this is the moment in the same way that I think Narendra Modi has realized that this is the moment to do that. I think there’s been a lot of talk about a closer relationship. But I think under the Morrison Prime Ministership this will actually materialize and we’ve seen it materialize. And take its first major step in the comprehensive strategic partnership that was announced in the recent virtual leaders summit that occurred earlier this month and that’s important because it really elevates the relationship that we have with India to the first rank level of relationship the fact that we’ve sent Barry O’farrell there the first parliamentarian or former Parliamentarian first state premier ever to be our high commissioner indicates the seriousness with which we take the relationship. It puts it on the same level as Washington as London as Tokyo. India also regards the relationship very seriously. The fact that we are now doing military exercises with India, that we’re only doing with a handful of other nations really indicates the strengthening of this relationship.

Australia is a resources superpower, India is a technology superpower. We have so many complementary things to work together.  Under Scott Morrison’s leadership we are really capitalizing on this particular moment.

Again going back to your article ‘Australia and India believe might is not right’, how important is Peace to Indo-Pacific for both India and Australia?

This is exactly right Australia and India both believe might is not right. This means that we believe in the rules-based international order. It means that when you sign up to an international agreement you’re actually bound by it and you’ll do things to not just sign the piece of paper but to actually see it implemented. That you want peace, security, stability, that when you’re conducting loans and development whether it’s infrastructure or financial transactions with developing countries, that you’re doing so in a way that helps ensure the development of that country but not settling that particular country, we think particularly some of our nations in the pacific with unsustainable debt that it will never be able to repay and so that the lender of the money effectively has the country by the short and curlies,  instead of actually trying to foster development that benefits benefits all.

When we say ‘might is not right’, it means that we together unlike other countries need to work together to ensure stability in our region. Stability is absolutely vital for the economic growth of India and Australia but it’s also vital for the growth of our whole region.

India is a new front-line nuclear power both in terms of energy and defence while Australia both politically and socially is overwhelmingly opposed to any form of nuclear power. How does this massive difference in ideology between both the countries square with mutual economic trade and defence cooperation?

I don’t think it’s such a difference.  One of the first bills I spoke on when I was first elected to the Parliament in 2016 was the bill to secure the export of uranium to India for peaceful purposes.

I was very proud to speak on that bill. I’ve always seen the export of uranium to India as absolutely vital to our relationship. It indicates that we are serious about the relationship and indicates that India as its development takes place,  as it brings you know, millions and millions hundreds of millions of people out of poverty that it will require more electricity needs and Australia needs to play a part and  particularly in an environment where people are concerned about emissions. Nuclear power should be part of that in relation to nuclear weapons well.

India has a different geostrategic environment in which it’s operating to Australia on India’s borders are both Pakistan and China both of which are hostile neighbors. China has nuclear weapons. I can’t remember whether Pakistan does or doesn’t but India needs to be able to defend itself in a different way, the way Australia does. So, it’s not our business to lecture India about nuclear weapons.  We have relationships with the United States and Britain that go back century and they are both nuclear powers as well and that doesn’t affect Australia’s relationship with either of those nations. It shouldn’t affect Australia’s relationship with India either the recent agreement between Australia and India are to use each other’s bases. I think the mutual logistics agreement which is  an agreement that effectively means that Australian defence personnel can refuel and repair and do work on Indian defence equipment and vice versa and we could share knowledge and do exercises together is a great thing.

The next question from Rajwant Singh from Punjab express, what would you count more closer to Australia, an open electoral based democracy or closed one party or autocracy and why?

This is a very easy question to answer. It’s easily the open multi-party democracy that is India as opposed to China which is really what you’re getting at here. Why is democracy important? People think oh we’re just going to have elections every few years in Australia where we have compulsory voting.  People sometimes find democracy a hassle democracy is absolutely fundamental. People have fought and died to give us the systems that we’ve got in our countries but why is it fundamental to the way we conduct ourselves because ultimately those of us who take political responsibility those of us who are involved in government are ultimately responsible to the people at elections. And if people don’t like what we have done they can vote and organize to remove us. Freedom of association freedom of speech, freedom of the press, the rights to vote these things are fundamental.

Next question is coming from United Indian association this is a repeat but tell us how do you see the bilateral relationship benefit Australian Indian and community at large?

Well, I think the bilateral relationship is going to be one of the most important relationships that we have. Going forward I think that we will look back in 50 years time at this period where we are laying the foundations for the bilateral relationship and look at it in the same way that Australians look back in the 1950s to the commencement of the ancestry that relationship is going to be built on security,  it’s going to be built on economic opportunities. It’s going to be built on the people-to-people links that our diaspora particularly provides us in both countries.

I can’t think of two countries that have needed to come together and work together more than Australia and India. The  fundamentals are already there we’ve just got to take the next steps.

 On a lighter note how was your trip to Delhi?

The trip there was terrific. I’ve my wife and I honeymooned in India some 14-15 years ago and I hadn’t been back. It’s not because I hadn’t wanted to go back I just hadn’t had the chance to go back.

When I went there for our honeymoon like many people do, I got sick um I love daal and it wasn’t sort of a Delhi-Belly thing I got.  I had too much daal, uh I gorged myself.

When I went last time I saw that things have changed um well I went last as a tourist. I was getting to understand the country and the culture. This time I was much more interested in how the Australian India relationship is going.

(Compiled by Shashi Narasimhiah and Nidhi Kumari)

Watch the full interview on YouTube channel of Indus Age at: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VaENvnpt5Gg