“The Characteristic of Human Resilience is the Most Undervalued Leadership Attribute”: Vivek Bhatia, CEO, Australia Pacific, QBE Insurance Group

One of the most influential leaders in the Australian insurance industry today, Vivek Bhatia, who was also awarded the IABCA Business Leader of the Year 2015; goes down the memory lane and share with us his initial challenges in his career, the good and the bad days, to becoming what he is today; his advice to young leaders, his association with the beautiful Indian roots and equally rich Australian heritage, and more in a comprehensive interview with Rajesh Sharma of Indus Age.

Compiled by Nidhi Kumari and Shashikanth Narasimhiah

We have often heard that ‘successful people are not different, they just do things differently’. Being an inspirational figure, what is it that you would like to say on this?

When you talk about being different you mean being determined, having a great work ethic, being resilient and having the ability to bounce back when things don’t go as per plan. Many people work but very few people put in the efforts that needs be  put in to be able to do that job well. When you get knock-backs, the ability to bounce back is super critical. The characteristic of human resilience is the most undervalued leadership attribute; people talk very less about it. What underpins big leadership is resilience. It is your ability to go through thick and thin and come out shining. I am a believer of that. The other thing that I believe in is good luck. Right place and right time is an important thing. Suffice to say that good luck follows hard work. All the attributes need to line up. You have to grab an opportunity and work hard and make sure you make the maximum of an opportunity. Don’t sit down and say, “I wish, I could do that”. It is about what I could do, with what I have. A lot of people get carried away by saying, “If I had, I would do this and then I would be okay”, rather than looking at and making most of what they already have. People who do that actually do well in life both professionally and personally. This is because they are not of victim mindset or helplessness.

Vivek,  when did you migrate to Australia and what were the initial challenges you faced as an Indian migrant trying to make a career in Australia? How did you overcome those challenges? (Enlighten us about your background, education, initial industry participation and your journey to where you are now.)
I was born to a middle class family in Bombay (now Mumbai). I am a lone child. We migrated to a small town called Aurangabad when I was 12. My dad set up a small scale business there and that’s where I spent most of my formative years.I did my Engineering there. Post that I came back to Mumbai to do my MBA and CFA in 1998 and through campus I joined Tata consultancy services.

In January 1999, I moved to Australia. I came here with a few hundred dollars in my pocket and I was without a job. When I came here I wanted to see if I can find a future here. I always saw Australia watching cricket, I am a big cricket tragic. So, I used to get up early in the morning and watch India play with Australia always saw India beaten at that time..Nevertheless watched the fields, the grounds and fell in love with the country.

It took me five months, more than a hundred job applications to get through interviews. I used to collect Saturday papers see which ones to apply for and send applications. They used to send me physical letters saying, “I regret to inform you that on this occasion you have not been selected. Every day at 3 pm in the afternoon, even though I knew that anything that would come would be a rejection and not a call letter.  I still used to go down religiously at 10 past 3 and collect the mail and go through them and that I used to think what all I could cross off and look at the other ten that I needed to apply for. So, I used to do atleast 20 applications per week for anything and everything, because I needed a job at that point in time.

Since I was running out of money, very quickly, I needed a job.  I was living with someone else in Burwood and so I lived there and then we had a family friend who used to live in Australia and that was of great help. I used to go to their place and they used to give me good food which I relished, but also a lot of love and affection and care. I am very fortunate to have them in my life.

Then, I got a call from KPMG and started the interview process but they have a long interview process. In the middle since I wasn’t quite sure whether I would get there so, I took up a job in a call center in an industry research publications for 2000 dollars a month in 1999. I had little chance to get through anybody over the phone and within two weeks they realized this guy cannot make a sale and I realized that I will never make a sale and we shook hands and left (laughs). I remember clearly my fixed compensation was a 1000 dollars a month. My rent was half of 240 dollars a week. With that I had to make ends meet.

Then in May, I was lucky enough to get the KPMG job. Hence my career started in Australia. But those 4 months from January to April made me, go from being a boy to a man, it made me tough. There were numerous times when I would think that ‘I should go back home, thinking that may be it is not for me, why wouldn’t I get through any interview call, I am qualified, why wouldn’t they want to see me’. It was difficult to pass time. So, I used to read books or go to the town hall library and read the newspaper. More importantly it was more about reading books. I used to make sure to take the train after 9 o’ clock as it was cheaper and used to come to the city as I loved being in the city. I used to sit in places. I used to sit on a bench, read a book and watch the world go by, being gainfully occupied. Looking at them I would tell myself that that one day I too would go back to work. It was a very formative part of my life.

Then I was very fortunate to get into KPMG. I started at the entry level as a consultant and got to work with wonderful people, I got to learn a lot I got head hunted by Price Waterhouse Coopers and worked with them for a little while.

In 1999 I also got married. My wife is an Indian Australian, her family moved here 35 years ago in the 80s.

In 2001, we bought our first apartment and during the same time, the tech boom turned into a bust. So, there were a lot of changes in these professional fronts so as a result, I found myself out of job, two months after I had my first mortgage which was fascinating. So, life has thrown a lot of spanners in the works which always fascinates me.  But all this made me stronger and more determined to do even more .

I was fortunate to build a strong network in the last 2 and half years.

I got a couple of good opportunities to contract and then I joined QBE Mercantile Mutual which was a joint-venture between QBE and Mercantile mutual which became ING.

I worked with them for 5 years on a whole number of different roles. Really cut my teeth into the corporate world but also understood insurance really well. I got head hunted work for Wesfarmers.

I joined them as a head of IT and operations and within a year I was promoted to be the CEO of their insurance businesses. My boss Rob Scott who was the group CEO of Wesfarmers – one of the leading CEOs of the Country.

I got a great opportunity to work with him for four years wherein I learned a lot from him. I am forever grateful to him for giving me my CEO role when I was just 36. I was a very young CEO as compared to most and I got to learn a lot out of that experience. Then ended up joining McKenzie & Coto, led their restructure and transportation practice, because it was a new practice they had set up across Asia-Pacific which was fascinating and it was again a great experience across industries, working in different sectors not just insurance and finance. This gave me a grounding on cross-sectoral experience.

In 2014, I joined the NSW Government Dominic Perrottet who is the treasurer, was the Finance Minister. He and I had great conversation on the workers compensation system which needed a turn around.

They had a board and Michael Carapiet was the chairman of the board. So, I started working with him and Dominic Perrottet. We also came across one of the, leading lights of the Indian Corporate diaspora, Piyush Gupta. Piyush Gupta was on board and at ICARE, it kind of gave me a lot inspiration to see someone like Piyush who was there and had just been promoted to the group apart from some other directorial role that he had got. I got to learn from him and the entire board. Michael and Piyush became mentors for life for me. Two and a bit years ago I went back to QBE, my original home and got the great opportunity to lead the whole market business, which is absolutely brilliant. I have had the great opportunity come my way and I have made the most of it.

Your qualifications and accreditations are from India. How is Indian qualifications and experience viewed in Australia? Did you need to undertake any bridging education after migrating to Australia? If so what additional benefits does one acquire with that kind of bridging program?

I didn’t do my education from Australia but I have seen a lot people do it. It helps them, helps people acclimatize and, contextualize their learning for a different environment and that is a good sign. From my perspective I got into a role then life took me on a different journey.

I didn’t really stop and go back to school as per the Australian system at all. Personally I haven’t done it, but I see it can have benefit.

Despite people of Indian origin being highly educated and hard working and despite large numbers in the recent times we do not see many industry leaders among them especially in Asia-Pacific region. Your comments:

I think there is no doubt in my mind that there is ahuge amount of capability in the diaspora. We have a great community, we have a system that breeds good experts. I think there are a few things that come to mind. One is our ability to adapt. I have a very strong belief that when it comes to race of life it is not the strongest or fastest that do well, it’s the one who adapts the best. There is something there for us, as community how do we adapt best to the circumstances, and the context we find ourselves in. What I don’t mean by that is, change who we are, we do not need to change ourselves.

People sometime feel that they need to go the other way round and dis-associate themselves from the roots or their Indian origin. And try to Australianise themselves completely. That is not authentic. Make sure that you maintain your authenticity. Be proud of the roots that you have and also contextualize that to the current environment you are in.

When you do that and you feel comfortable with who you are. It reflects that confidence in you. The best communities that do that are successful worldwide. They always come in and say that I am proud to be of Greek origin or of Jewish origin, or of Chinese origin, saying that I am an American or Australian and I am proud of my heritage on both sides. When people do that over a period of time, they will undoubtedly, be more successful. The other thing that is a bit of a reflection is that the growth of the Indian community in Australia is fairly recent. Even 21 years ago when I came we didn’t see that many Indians around.

I remember walking on the streets and if we saw an Indian you tend to look at them and you nod and smile; now it is like they are everywhere. Because of the recent sea of the volume of migration, we probably have a lot of more leaders come through over the next couple of decades. Things just don’t happen instantaneously.

The thing that I really get scared about is that the people kind of come back  and say things about the lack of acceptability, or because of who I am or where I come from,  I won’t have the opportunity and getting into this helplessness or victim mindset is something we need to constructively avoid. It is really important for the community to see people who are actually doing well.

There are plenty of shining examples. I do think we need to do a better job of showcasing them to the vast Indian majority that we have them. We don’t do that as well.I think that there needs to be more focus on that. What you’re doing is exactly that, providing a platform. So that people can see. As we know with all these things people can be what they want. If they can see that there are people from Indian origin who are successful in various walks of life, they are inspired by that as well and see if they can I can too.

So, making sure that we have lots of symbols and examples from Indian origin doing well, is a big boost to everybody.

You need to give time, have patience and prove yourself. There are a couple things. I had the great fortune of meeting Indira Nooyi, last year when she was in Sydney and I had a good one on one chat with her. I asked her similar questions. She is such a great role model for us all globally.

The need is to present better.We need to focus on skill sets, that are outside technical skill sets. Just because we have good content experts in what we do, that doesn’t take away the need for us to assimilate better in to the environment and that may mean thinking about dressing differently, thinking about being more presentable, focusing on speaking skills, presentation skills, it is just a more well rounded personality as opposed to I am an expert in X. That extension is really required. If you have broader aspirations, just like anybody else you need to be open to new skills or new attributes. It is important to create a good impression.

What is the level of acceptability in top leadership positions for a person of Indian background in an Australian organization? What advice do you have for young aspiring leaders of Indian origin?

I will try and do a couple of things on that, if I may. Talking about the level of acceptability, I have never experienced in any of my roles both internally and externally facing a different share of treatment. When people say to me that they have faced discrimination or racism I can’t talk about it as I have not experienced it. If I had experienced it I probably wouldn’t be where I am today. So, my take on that is first of all you have to take that thought out of mind to become a  young inspirational Indian leader, take that out from your mind that ‘I am going to face barriers’. You are on an equal platform with anybody else who is with you. You make sure that you focus on your job, displaying all the attributes and work ethics that are demanded and make the best use of the opportunity given. And make sure you are delivering the best from the opportunity given. And ensure that you keep on learning constantly. Make sure while you are doing your current job to the best of your capability, you are also preparing for the next role. When that opportunity comes right place, right time, is also about luck but also about what you do with it. Make sure you keep your head and shoulder above anybody else to be given that opportunity and for that you need to have a background to make sure you are prepared for something specific, because you don’t know what that is, but generally prepared for what comes your way, so that you are able to capitalize on it and run with it.

How do you look at Australia-India relationship at present and what all can the two of the biggest democracies in the world, learn from each other?

I am not an expert, so I cannot give you the detail, there is a lot of potential for the two countries to grow together, we have a strong bond whether it is cricket, export, import, trade and obviously the under pinning of being strong democracies. I think it is a huge opportunity for both the countries to do more than what they are doing.

The foundation level of the two is really strong.

What is your assessment of the future for aspiring leaders of Indian origin in Australia?

I believe that the future is really bright, I believe that people of Indian origin have a lot to contributefrom all walks of life within Australia. I truly believe that if we were having this conversation 20 years down the line, we would see a plethora of individuals and organization that have added huge amount of value to Australia. I think for any of the people who are aspiring to do that, they need to believe in themselves and believe  that there are no barriers, and need to ensure that they are extremely well prepared, into putting their heart and souls to make a difference and that impact need to be across communities.

On a personal note, Vivek, there might be days when one doesn’t feel on top of the world, how do you motivate yourself to work with the same energy?

I am very fortunate to have great friends. I have got a set of friends in Australia and set of friends back home. Incredibly fortunate that even after 30 years we are in touch and I make it a point to meet them regularly.

Quite recently, I was with my friends, 13 of them, in a small town near Jodhpur, spent 2 days together and felt as if we were teenage kids again. That keeps me grounded. They have influence on my life. Then I have a great set of friends here, when you don’t have family here, your friends become family, so they are exactly that.

I am fortunate to have very supportive family, I have got 2 wonderful kids, 16 and 14. They keep me grounded. I am very lucky to have my parents who are very loving and caring who have given me everything. I feel blessed.

Tell us your personal interests, balancing family life and work.

Balance is a very personal thing, there is no generic rule that you need to confirm to say that I am balanced or not. I could spend half  my time at work, and half my time at home and still I don’t feel that I am balancing enough. I feel my life is quite balanced between my personal and professional. The way I have always operated once I leave work and I go home I do not think about work. In my kind of work, things can happen anytime and it is a 24×7 role. As things can happen anytime and you have to jump in, it’s not that I am on holiday or Sunday. If anything happens I need to jump in. But I kind of have managed a right kind of regime where I balance my family and work. I go for activities with my kids, sporting events watch television, watch shows which are of mutual interests. We have managed to create a life around both their needs and my work commitments, wherein all of us are comfortable.

When I was growing up one of my aspirations was to become a Bollywood movie star. Before your jaw drops in disbelief, I used to look a bit different when I was young, so I thought I had a shot. In  mid 1990s I had auditioned for Amitabh Bachchan ABCL’s talent program and I got shortlisted,  did a lot of workshops with them. Before my dad said that I should study rather than ‘mix up the good of your life…and put my life down that path’ which I did and I am thankful for the advice. I love watching Hindi movies, now there is the beauty of Netflix and prime. I watch Indian shows specially streaming shows which have terrific quality. I was really impressed by Sacred Games, Selection Day which is based on cricket tragic, it is great watch. I just finished Jamtara recently. I loved watching Mirzapur which was nice. So, all these things keep me balanced. I also love travelling. Our latest holiday was in New York in December with family. I was there on work and my family came along. We had great fun walking around the city, watching basketball, being a blissful tourist. It is a privilege to be able to do all this. I often tell my kids my first overseas trip was when I was 25, when I came to Australia, I had never been overseas before. We didn’t have the money too. I had hardly been on a plane twice before that. Obviously they look at me like I am from a different planet…(laughs).

What would you like to add for the Indian-Australian diaspora as a message?

I am very proud of being an Indian Australian and I wish that everybody else feels the same. It is not about being one or the other, it is about being both. That makes us special. Don’t lose that special bit by trying to be one or the other.

Don’t rely on past laurels what the past persona looked like. Every day you are on trial. Don’t rely on yesterday, be great today.

Thank you for the great opportunity… (smiles).